CLICK HERE TO GO TO ARTICLE, BELOW THE ARTICLE IS A SHORT AUDIO CLIP OF A RADIO SHOW THAT MR. SCHULZ APPEARED ON AND WORTH LISTENING TO. Below the audio link you can leave a comment. There are over 2,000 comments so far. There is also a Digg button next to the article, you may want to click on it and then decide how to respond.
Wednesday, December 3, 2008
Chicago Tribune Barack Obama Citizenship ARTICLE ABOUT AD, You ALL MIGHT WANT TO CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW IMAGE, OVER 2,000 COMMENTS HAVE BEEN LEFT.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO ARTICLE, BELOW THE ARTICLE IS A SHORT AUDIO CLIP OF A RADIO SHOW THAT MR. SCHULZ APPEARED ON AND WORTH LISTENING TO. Below the audio link you can leave a comment. There are over 2,000 comments so far. There is also a Digg button next to the article, you may want to click on it and then decide how to respond.
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25 comments:
It looks like a group of Obamabots has left positive scores for all the posts against this article, and a negative post for all the posts that are for the article.
Because of this, only the negative comments about the article posts are visible, the ones in favor of the article have to be clicked on to view.
Just thought you should know.
as i wrote in comments:
The author of the “letter” has no clue about legal matters whatsoever.
Obama doesn’t need to prove anything since "the necessity of proof lies with he who complains." (onus probandi)
Chiyome Fukino, The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health made a public statement that she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” According to that policy she isn’t be allowed to verify a foreign BC.
Obama is a natural-born citizen of the United States, for the simple reason that he was born on American soil. The age and citizenship status of Obama’s parents at the time have no bearing on Obama’s own citizenship. The Black’s Law Dictionary considers terms “natural-born citizen” and “citizens by birth” as synonymous.
The author doesn’t understand the legal concept of jus sanguinis (right of blood). Here is how the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service explains the difference:
“The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizenship at birth to almost all individuals born in the United States or in U.S. jurisdictions, according to the principle of jus soli. Certain individuals born in the United States, such as children of foreign heads of state or children of foreign diplomats, do not obtain U.S. citizenship under jus soli.”
BTW, Leo Donofrio is a professional poker player, not a lawyer.
Citizen Cane
I was taught back when I was in high school that if one is born on U.S. soil, they are a U.S. Citizen.
However, I am overwhelmed by all the beliefs out there that something is going on and that Barack Obama seems to have not really put much effort into quelling those rumors.
The moment Barack Obama presented a copy of a birth certificate as being the real thing, to me, that is when I started to have my own doubts.
Just snap a picture of the real birth certificate and be done with it. The one counter argument to this line of reasoning that I can come up with is it could allow others to try and create false birth certificates by studying the Barack Obama copy???
What if Barack Obama was really born in Kenya...boy wouldn't that be an amazing twist in this saga?
It's kind of disappointing that those one sided vote totals are not "changing". But it also makes me suspicious that the vote totals next to each comment are so lopsidely in favor of Barack Obama.
Too bad there isn't more unity among the PUMA community to at least neutralize the Obamabots.
Alessandro, you have a point here: what if this is a bait?
So far Donforio’s only argument – a shared loyalty at the time of birth and a presumed intent of Framers about it – is a contradictive speculation without substantial proof. In the case of trial, Donofrio would have to prove Obama’s alleged ineligibility “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Sincerely I can’t imagine that.
Have you ever checked who Leo Donofrio really is? Just in case…
https://www.bluffmagazine.com/players/leo-donofrio/42071/player-profile.asp
“the ringleader of an esoteric critically acclaimed sonic indie rock band with electro splashes and bossa nova dreams called SCHIZO FUN ADDICT”
http://odell.connect-2.co.uk/olsnewchapter.html
“The Holy Spirit concept derives from the word "Paraclete" which translates as "advocate" or "lawyer." I am a lawyer, God's lawyer. They never told you "he" would come as a man, they lied about me denying me a place in the world of men. But Jesus made it clear he would send a man.”
Citizen Cane
The two talking points for Barack Obama's side that I find compelling are.... If Barack Obama was born on U.S. soil, he's an american citizen, and if he was born in Kenya, he's still a U.S. Citizen as long as his mother was a U.S. Citizen???
If the second point is true, then I would guess that one way Barack Obama would not be a citizen is if Barack's mom was so enthralled by other parts of the world that she became a citizen of another country prior to giving birth in that country.
I won't judge the feasibility of that last scenario, just trying to figure out what scenario would actually not make Barack Obama a U.S. citizen.
News flash: the SC today granted certiorari in two cases. Donofrio's case is not on the list.
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120508zr.pdf
We can therefore assume the Court denied certiorari, permanently ending the "natural-born citizen" case - there are no further avenues of review.
-- Citizen Cane
Which just adds fuel to the fire. It doesn't make sense to not properly vet a presidential candidate over such a simple issue.
Assuming the Hawaii news clipping of the birth of Barack Obama is authentic, then authenticating the real birth certificate from Hawaii with a KNOWN and APPROVED forensic scientist would probably have eliminated most of the complaints. (not all, but most).
Maybe it would. But Obama doesn’t need to do that.
He can relay on the core legal postulate that "the necessity of proof lies with he who complains" (Onus Probandi) – the Law doesn’t require from the accused one to prove innocence.
Officials at the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and other government agencies have accepted his BC as authentic. Most importantly, Chiyome Fukino, The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health made an official statement that she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” BTW her direct superior, Gov. Linda Lingle is Republican.
Alessandro, what if Obama's strategy is to let his opponents chase the shadow, to allure them away from his real weak point (hint: “follow the money”). The last case was an easy PR victory for him.
BTW, have you ever checked who Leo Donofrio aka Lee Donofrio aka Jet Schizo aka Jet Wintzer aka Paraclete aka Burnweed, the author of ONELOVESTORY really is? Do it.
I’m talking about credibility.
-- Citizen Cane
If you listen to the Audio Interview located below the Chicago Tribune article about this case http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama-ad-03-dec03,0,3124041.story . Mr. Schulz, another litigant, sounds perfectly reasonable in his reasoning.
Please listen to it.
We all have ID that we show from time to time to gain access to a service or privilege, running for president would fall under that guideline.
Barack Obama's 90's were not vetted by the media, nor were the caucus contests and the apparently controversial connection to ACORN that led to a ridiculously unrepresentative 2-1 margin of victory for Barack Obama in the caucus contests.
If you are saying the litigants have to provide some other type of proof, then what do we make of relatives that seem to be saying that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?
I would rather people focus on what if Barack Obama had been born in Kenya, but his mother was american, what would that make Barack Obama?
Hi Alessandro,
Good hearing from you. I read that on Obama's own site,he has a statement saying his father Obama,Sr. being a Kenyan was a British subject and all his children were treated equally as British subjects because Sr. was a Kenyan so Jr. had dual citizenship at birth he was not a natural citizen.
meaning Barack Obama is....????
Great post here!
BTW, would you like a Link Exchange with our new blog COMMON CENTS where be blog about the issues of the day??
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
For what it's worth, the Supreme Court has postponed deciding whether or not to hear Donofrio.
Hi Commoncents, I checked out your site. You are squeezing a lot out of from the limited space googles two column set up provides, congratulations.
I don't see a match with the DailyPUMA "newspaper" section, however, what I can do is start a reciprocal link section for blogs that list us.
I beg my Father to forgive you, because you don't know what you're doing.
Let me tell you something about myslef and my mission:
_________________________________
I am not Lee D'onofrio or Burnweed.
Those are names of the body I have used as a spacesuit to appear here before you on planet Earth.
My real name is The Paraclete. And Reni IS The Messiah. The Paraclete aka The Spirit of Truth, aka The Holy Spirit is the third person of Trinity. As Jesus stated in the Gospel of John, he has sent me to condemn Satan and glorify the Messiah.
The Holy Spirit concept derives from the word "Paraclete" which translates as "advocate" or "lawyer." I am a lawyer, God's lawyer. They never told you "he" would come as a man, they lied about me denying me a place in the world of men. But Jesus made it clear he would send a man. Do your homework because he said he'd send "another" like him, another man. That's me people. Freaky? Yes. True? You bet your sweet human ass that mine is divine. I speak with a mandate from Heaven.
At this moment in time, the name for the body I am using has been changed to Jet Wintzer. I am spreading the prophecies given to me by God, the Father, to the world through my asskicking new band Schizo FunAddict.
http://odell.connect-2.co.uk/olsnewchapter.html
_________________________________
I am the author of internet cult phenomenon "ONELOVESTORY", written under the alias BURNWEED. In 1994 I was at a low point in my life, a failed law career led to me being a singer in a failed rock band inspired by the 89/90 Manchester Rock/Rave explosion.
In 1994 my band broke up and I was in a bad way. Angels intervened.
I was led by dream to the music, art and lyrics of my fav band, Manchester icons, The Stone Roses.
I began to recognize a hidden concept within their work leading me to believe they were angels of the apocalypse and I was called to break the story, something like "Paul is Dead" by The Beatles or the Publius Enigma (Pink Floyd).
I spent 1995-1999 trying to break the story to the UK music press by using art terrorist tactis. In 1998 I realized I was The Paraclete and that my purpose was to prophecy the return of the Messiah. The angels led me to one ALLAN(Reni)WREN, reclusive drummer of The Stone Roses. Needless to say I never had a chance of getting ONELOVESTORY or my music any press as they all thought I was insane and trying to ride on the shoulders of another band's dream as a charlatan. So I changed my name and reincarnated myself as Jet Wintzer, leader of a fledgling New York City art noise lofi psychedelic group, SCHIZO FUN ADDICT.
http://iodrakon.proboards15.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=8
_________________________________
Listen to the Words of the Truth.
So once a person becomes a rock star wannabe, a person can't "change" or have other passions?
Plus, there is more than one lawsuit.
Alessandro, just keep going on, everything is fine. Don't let yourself get bothered by idiots like me, wasting their time in vain.
I tried my best.
-- Citizen Cane
Folks, seriously: What in the world gives you the idea that Barack Obama's mother went to Kenya? His father came to America, and she didn't even have wherewithal or good cause to go to Kenya. Then there's that announcement in the Hawaiian newspaper Aug. 13 1961. Sure, maybe someone could have phoned it in but sure would be a weird lot of trouble to go way over there, then pretend a son was born in USA just in case he ever runs for president ... And BTW dual citizenship acquired some time isn't stated as a factor or defined in the Constitution.
Remember, that other angle that says it was BHO's dad being non-American and not where BHO was born that matters? Is it really true, Donofrio doesn't argue that Obama was born outside the US. He claims: citizenship must be passed on by the constitutionally pertinent principle of natural law, which assumes that citizenship is inherited from one's father's citizenship? But there is no Constitutional basis for gender preference about citizenship, or that denies to a US mother, natural born status to her offspring born on US soil due to father being foreign - ? Remember finally, the US Constitution doesn't precisely define "citizen"!
Please, give up this silly stuff. It does no good to any decent political purpose whatsoever. It will just make more people mad than sympathetic, whatever the outcome (and I don't mean just directly correlated to voting patterns.) The following piece by a prominent libertarian (i.e. not a liberal) should give pause: http://www.slate.com/id/2206033/.
paradoxer
Barack Obama's mother ended up spending a significant portion of her life outside of the United States. So to say it is outlandish that she went to Kenya is, outlandish.
Maybe there was pressure to have the baby there as a form of appeasement to the grandparents on the father's side.
No, the info in the newspaper was not phoned in because Barack Obama would run for president someday, it could very easily have been phoned in simply because being a citizen of the United States would be considered more desireable.
I'm comfortable with what I learned in high school, if you are born on U.S. soil, irrespective of your parents, you are an american citizen.
However, if Barack's mother did go to Kenya for his birth, I think that complicates things a bit.
OK, BHO's mother did go to Indonesia with her new husband, who likely paid for that. But really, the issue isn't "could" BHO's mother have been in Kenya on August 4 1961, but was she? Does anyone have any evidence of that (like Passport records) etc? How did that story ever get started?
BTW would the newspaper just take someone's word for it, or do they check with hospitals? I don't know, just asking.
I don't know about the newspaper protocol. I would just be guessing but it would not surprise if me if all one had to do was call it in.
As for going to Kenya back in 1961. Were the planes that comfortable back then to just hop into one while pregnant and go from Hawaii to Kenya? Doubtful. LOL, maybe the planes were actually more plus back then???
So which came first, the wild idea that Barack's mom went to Kenya for the birth, or the appearance that Barack Obama has something to hide, thereby creating a flood of question?
If a person is minding their own business, I agree that we don't necessarily ask for a birth certificate or proof of citizenship, but that is entirely different from running for president of the United States.
I don't agree that the standard for getting a loan or applying for a job is higher than running for president of the United States.
Why isn't more attention being paid to the Kenyan grandmother who says she witnessed birth in Kenya? Weren't there three Kenyan relatives saying that?
What do they and other Kenyan relatives say about her alleged visit to Kenya at that time?
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